Join us for a fascinating deep dive into the world of entheogens and psychedelics with renowned expert Dr. Andrew MacLean Pagon. Dr. Pagon is a bona fide expert in this field and has lived in the Amazon with the indigenous people learning their sacred medicine.
This episode explores:
– The intersection of traditional sacred medicines and modern psychedelic research
– Latest findings on consciousness and altered states
– Therapeutic applications and future possibilities
Watch The Podcast for Podiatrists
Listen to The Podcast for Podiatrists
Also available on
Guest Biography
Dr. Andrew MacLean Pagon MD, PhD
Dr. Maclean Pagon is a Senior Consultant GP and Psychiatrist, specializing in holistic medicine and psychiatry, entheogenic psychotherapy, Vijaya or cannabis medicine, medical herbalism, and acupuncture.
He is a full-time member of the Peruvian Psychiatric Association, Latin American Psychiatric Association, and World Psychiatric Association, and an International Member of the American Psychiatric Association (APA).
Education and Training:
From an early age, Dr. Maclean Pagon was trained in ancient druid lore, which promotes the cultivation of honorable connections and relationships with the physical, energetic, and spiritual landscapes—flora, fauna, the kingdom of fungi, lichen, algae, bodies of water, landforms, and diverse human beings of the world—as well as with nature deities and spirits of nature. This training emphasizes the veneration of the divine essence in nature and all living things.
In his late teens and throughout his early and late adulthood, he was trained in Vedic Aryan lore while living in Bharat, or India, for many years. This training emphasizes spiritual disciplines such as yoga, mantra repetition, meditation, pranayama, martial arts, sacred sexuality or tantra, and the ceremonial use of entheogens.
Exploring intersections such as nature and ecology, spiritual practices, holistic understanding of the self, cosmology, mythology and symbolism, and healing modalities fostered a deeper understanding of spirituality, nature, and the interconnectedness of all life.
Dr. Maclean Pagon’s unique blend of druidic and Vedic Aryan knowledge positions him as a bridge between ancient wisdom and modern spirituality, offering insights into how individuals can live in harmony with themselves, each other, and the planet, including all animate and inanimate beings.
Dr. Maclean Pagon completed his medical training at the Tianjin International University of Modern and Traditional Medicine and Pharmacology, with clinical placements at Teaching Hospitals No.1 and No.2, and Tianjin Nankai Hospital of Integrated Medicine, earning an MBBS degree. He pursued a PhD in the History of Medicine at the Faculty of Medical Studies, Open University, Sri Lanka. Further research and clinical studies led to a Doctorate in Medicine (MD) and a Doctorate in Clinical Psychiatry, specializing in Integrated and Transcultural Psychiatry, at Tianjin Medical University, under the guidance of Academician Professor Dr. Wu Xian Zong, a WHO expert.
Shamanic and Entheogenic Experience:
Dr. Maclean Pagon began his shamanic journey with Ayawaska and other Amazonian and Andean master plants and mushrooms in 1987, working with the Secoya Amazonian Amerindians in Colombia. He has conducted extensive ethnomedical-botanical-
mycological research among various Amerindian Amazonian tribes in Ecuador, Peru, and Brazil. Global Experience:
Having lived and worked in numerous countries including the UK, Denmark, Austria, Italy, PRChina, India, Nepal, Mongolia, Japan, and others, Dr. Maclean Pagon brings a broad understanding of the transcultural, transpersonal, and entheogenic aspects of clinical medicine, psychology, and psychiatry.
Currently, Dr. Maclean Pagon operates a licensed clinical practice in holistic medicine and psychiatry in Miraflores, Lima, and Tarapoto, San Martin, Peru.
He actively conducts field research on medicinal and entheogenic plants, mushrooms, and lichens across Peru’s diverse regions, collaborating with university researchers in the Peruvian Amazon.
At the moment, he finds himself again in Bharat, aka India, where he continues his journey of integrating Ayurveda, Siddha, Unani, Tibetan Buddhist, and Tibetan Shamanic medicines and spiritual practices into his personal and clinical work with patients.
Show Notes from this episode
- Introduction to Dr. Andrew MacLean Pagon 0:00
- Dr. Barrett introduces Dr. Andrew MacLean Pagon, highlighting his diverse background in psychiatry, shamanism, and plant-based medicine.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon is described as a practitioner with over three decades of experience in entheogens and psychedelics.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon has lived in the Amazon with indigenous tribes, learning sacred ceremonies and ancient medicine.
- Dr. Barrett expresses his admiration for Dr. MacLean Pagon’s understanding of trans-cultural medicine and the human condition.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon’s Current Work and Research 1:46
- Dr. MacLean Pagon is currently in Peru and plans to spend half a year in India researching different medical systems.
- He emphasizes the importance of understanding various medical systems beyond conventional orthodox medicine.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon lists several ancient medical systems, including Ayurveda, Siddha, Unani, Tibetan, and Han Chinese medicine.
- He advocates for an integrated approach that combines traditional and modern medicine for a holistic treatment.
- Entheogens vs. Psychedelics 4:04
- Dr. Barrett seeks clarification on the difference between entheogens and psychedelics.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon explains that entheogens generate the divine within, while psychedelics manifest in the psyche.
- He prefers the term entheogen due to its traditional and spiritual connotations.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon notes that entheogens are natural substances used for healing and spiritual growth, while psychedelics are often synthetic and clinical.
- Integration of Entheogens in Therapy 9:18
- Dr. Barrett inquires about the process of selecting the best entheogen for a patient.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon describes a comprehensive evaluation that includes personal and medical history, psychological and psychiatric assessments.
- He emphasizes the importance of proper preparation, integration, and guidance in using entheogens.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon warns against the misuse of entheogens without proper medical and psychological evaluation.
- Holistic Approach to Depression 15:35
- Dr. Barrett asks about the use of entheogens in treating recalcitrant depression.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon explains that depression is multifaceted and requires a holistic approach that includes physical, energetic, mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects.
- He stresses the importance of understanding the person and their unique circumstances in treating depression.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon mentions the role of lifestyle, diet, exercise, and mental-emotional factors in depression.
- Transgenerational Trauma and Entheogens 27:20
- Dr. Barrett asks about transgenerational trauma and its impact on mental health.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon explains that intergenerational and transgenerational trauma can contribute to depression and other mental health issues.
- He provides examples of historical trauma in indigenous communities and its long-lasting effects.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon discusses the importance of addressing trauma in the healing process and the role of entheogens in this context.
- The Role of Microbiome in Therapy 44:01
- Dr. MacLean Pagon highlights the importance of the microbiome in the absorption and effectiveness of medications and entheogens.
- He explains that the microbiome plays a crucial role in neurotransmitter formation and overall health.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon advocates for microbiome testing and the use of probiotics, prebiotics, and postbiotics to optimize gut health.
- He emphasizes that a balanced microbiome is essential for effective treatment with entheogens and other therapies.
- Ayahuasca and Its Cultural Significance 48:36
- Dr. Barrett asks about the cultural significance and preparation of Ayahuasca.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon explains the traditional use of Ayahuasca in the Amazon and its various names and classifications.
- He describes the combination of the Banisteriopsis caapi vine and the Psychotria viridis leaf to create the Ayahuasca brew.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon discusses the historical and cultural knowledge required to develop such a sophisticated medicinal practice.
- The Future of Entheogenic Therapy 55:55
- Dr. Barrett and Dr. MacLean Pagon discuss the potential for entheogens in treating chronic pain and other conditions.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon mentions ongoing efforts to set up a hospital and research center in the Amazon for entheogenic therapy.
- He emphasizes the need for funding and collaboration to establish this facility and conduct comprehensive research.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon highlights the importance of integrating traditional knowledge with modern medical practices for effective treatment.
- Final Thoughts and Advice 1:18:57
- Dr. Barrett asks for advice for individuals interested in entheogenic therapy.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon advises education, self-awareness, and the development of skills to interact with entheogens effectively.
- He emphasizes the importance of a holistic approach, empathy, and the willingness to learn and grow.
- Dr. MacLean Pagon encourages individuals to take responsibility for their health and seek comprehensive treatment options.
Sponsors Of The Episode
Approved Medical Solutions
Your source for Oxalate free Nitric Oxide Supplementation
Non-licensed patients can use code “sbarrett” for a 10% discount.
Licensed practitioners can access the discounts by registering and when at checkout put “podofinquiry” (no space and not case sensitive) in the coupon section.
Ketone
Nitric Oxide